BIRD WILLIAMS: You're listening to Bird Means Business Episode 66. 

Hey there, for any new listeners out there. I am your host, Bird Williams, and Bird Means Business podcast is here to serve new entrepreneurs in that zero to three year phase as you're kind of trying to figure out all the things. I'm here to help you launch or grow your brand. So, I am so glad you're here. I'm so glad that you're taking precious time out of your day to invest in your business, and in yourself. With each episode of Bird Means Business, I try to put myself in your shoes and really be the resource that I wish I had when I launched my first business seven years ago. 

I am so excited for today's guest. Ally is someone I really admire and respect, and I just love her. I love this girl. And yo, all of what she shares is so transparent and practical. And I know her experience will really inspire so many of you entrepreneurs tuning in, whether your business is in a creative space, or not. Let me tell you a little bit more about this powerhouse of a woman that is Alexandria Wallace. Ally was born and raised in Dallas, Texas. And she actually grew up as a creative kid who dabbled in dance and art all throughout high school. With her parents’ full support, which is rare, she went on to study studio art in college. Ally received her BFA in painting from the University of Texas at Austin, so you know I already love her so much. That's my alma mater, too. And she went from there to work with Teach for America in Houston for six years. During this time she maintained a studio practice. But she and her husband ultimately made the decision to relocate to Los Angeles for her Master's in Fine Arts at the Otis College of Art and Design. Ally graduated in May of 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, which you'll hear her talk about. And today, Ally and her husband, Steve, continue to live in LA as they build their creative businesses. Isn’t that awesome? I wanted to have Ally on because I work with so many creative entrepreneurs who are really trying to figure out kind of how to operationalize their creativity. Meaning, how do I build structure and order around my business? Because I know that's important. I know I need that to really thrive and to grow my business, while I still make room for creativity and find space to really get in that flow state. And I love how Ally addresses all of these questions. Her perspectives are really profound. And what's even more powerful is how her practical tips and insights don't just apply to artists or creative entrepreneurs. They apply to us all. So, if you're in for a real treat. Let's do this.

Ally, I am so glad to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

ALLY WALLACE: I am good. How are you doing, Ashley?

BIRD: I am doing awesome. And I know that all of the different entrepreneurs who are tuning in, will gain so much from what we're going to talk about today. I've never had a super creative entrepreneur on the show. So this is gonna be a lot of fun. You ready?

ALLY: Yay! Yes. I’m ready. Let’s do this.

BIRD: Awesome! So I mean we've been really good friends for years. We met years ago actually through the gym, right? 

ALLY: Yeah. 

BIRD: Yeah, so through my gym, The League. But I don't think I've ever really heard the story of how you got into art, and when you really began to embrace it as a career. So I just want to kind of understand a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today. 

ALLY: Cool. Yeah, well, it has been a journey. That is the perfect word. I guess I'll start kind of early on. I mean I always enjoyed like making things as a kid. My dad is a carpenter, and I would always see his drawings and was really drawn to just seeing something go from concept to existence. Like that was very satisfying to me from a very young age and my mom too. She is creative in her own right and she definitely always encouraged us to play and to build. And I feel like just doing that with my sisters really cultivated like my creativity that from a very young age. And I'm so lucky that that was validated by my parents because, for a lot of people, it isn't necessarily. And we'll get into this, but because it's not necessarily the most straight and narrow path to financial security. So, I guess, yeah I got into really into art in high school and I guess at that point I started to take it more seriously as something that I could pursue, you know, past just a hobby as a kid. And then when it came time to decide on a college major I just really couldn't think of anything else that I was willing to spend that much time learning about. So I majored in painting at the University of Texas. 

BIRD:  Hook ‘em!

ALLY: Hook ‘em. Yeah, baby. And I really, I went to UT because I knew that if I panicked, and I wanted to bail out and major in something much more practical that I could. And that just never happened. I really loved it and I really felt like that's where I was supposed to be. And the art community was a space where I just really enjoyed the people and everyone is so generous within that world. And so yeah, it was a really good fit. And then after school, I actually. Speaking of like, changing paths for something more practical, I went into the highly lucrative profession of teaching, because I knew that I wanted to do the artist’s life. But I also had spent four years just only making things and to be honest I was kind of burnt out on it. I loved it but I also, I had this thread through my, a lot of what I did. In high school and college was mentoring and working with kids. And so I realized that was something that I was also good at and wanted to kind of explore. So, without teaching credentials I went through, TFA and I ended up doing Teach for America in Houston, which is what brought me to H-town. And I'm so grateful for that because I grew up in Dallas so Houston was always like, just that big oil and gas town that we didn't really talk about. So anyways, and then throughout my teaching career I slowly kind of got back into making work and eventually built up a portfolio of things that I was proud of, and then applied to graduate school, left my teaching gig. And then just this past May I finished my master's degree and was able to go full-time artist. So it's been a journey like you said, so accurately. And now for the first time really, in, I guess what, eight years of being out of undergrad, I am fully doing the artists gig. So it feels really good to say that. But it took some time.

BIRD: I love how honest you are and transparent about how that looked and how that ebbed and flowed. I think I love hearing stories of different people's entrepreneurial journey because they're all so different. And like one of threads is that embrace your journey and embrace your process because even though it doesn't look like someone else's, it can still be really powerful, right? So I love that you completely kind of went, went away from art into teaching, but then came back to it. And that's really special. So love your honesty there. 

So, what has it been like making that transition into like you said like I'm a full-time artist gig now? Now, like what happened like building a business as an artist? It's such a creative lane. And I work with a lot of creative entrepreneurs who are trying to figure out how to balance like what they focus on, in their talent, their art, with like but I also need structure and I also need processes and I have to get my numbers together and all of that. So what has it been like building that business?

ALLY: Yeah, well, I mean it has been a slow process like I said because I did keep my day job for so long. And so thankfully I had some time to figure that out because it was just like, slowly but surely the percentage of income that I had was getting more and more leaning towards art. But for a long time teaching was most of that. And so I had a lot of time to figure all of that out. And I'm very lucky to have my partner, Steve, who is also creative and also has run a few businesses. And so he was always sort of like two steps ahead when it came to figuring out those big things that I knew I would have to eventually do. Like forming an LLC and understanding how to do my sales tax and things that I mean, as a teacher, literally your taxes take four minutes. Okay, log on to TurboTax. Upload my one form. Write off maybe some suppliers that I bought and sign. So going from that to doing a creative business was just a big leap and so thankfully it was a) a slow process and b) I had Steve to really help me out. Because so much of that was new to both of us. And he just happened to always be a little bit further along, which I'm really grateful for. Yeah, that's kind of...

BIRD: Yeah, I think that's powerful. Two big points. One, leaning into the resources you have around you. I thank God all the time for my husband, Terry. He's not necessarily the business mind. I'm kind of that lane in our businesses. But man I put so many things by him. Social media captions. Photos. Which one should I choose? You know, just having someone there, whether it's your spouse or if it's just a friend. Finding like your person in business that you can like tap into is huge. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are kind of, they'll put their blinders on and just be focused on the business and not kind of open themselves up to doing it with somebody else, doing it in community. So love that you brought that up. And then also that you said it was a slow process. I think sometimes people think that they have to jump from their nine to five, or their full-time job into entrepreneurship. It's like you have to have one or the other and that's not the case at all. Actually, today, I send out a weekly email and I actually walk service providers through like thinking through when they need to leave their nine to five. 

ALLY: I read your email.

BIRD: Oh you did? 

ALLY: And I was just thinking, oh this is so spot on to like what I'm going to be sharing. It's a tough call.

BIRD: It is. And at some point, you do have to make the leap and that might not look like you completely leaving. But hiring on someone for your business to help grow it. But, but there's a strategy there. So I love that you shared that too. That's awesome.

ALLY: Yeah, no, and for me, it was going back to school, you know. Like I had to say like, there's a gap in the things that I need to go and do this. Teaching is like such an amazing profession and you get so invested in the school and in the families and I knew that I was going to have a hard time walking away from that ever. And so I had to do, like a, cut it off. We're going to move. I'm going to go to school. I'm going to acquire these other skills that I need to start this job. And so for me, that's what it took, which was a big change but needed.

BIRD: I love it. I love it. That’s awesome. So, do you ever feel like the business side of things, like the systems, the operations, the having to do your taxes and marketing, all that? Does it put a damper on your creativity? How do you kind of isolate businesswoman Ally versus artist Ally? Or do you? I just know that that might be a question that a lot of the creative entrepreneurs out there might think about. So what would be your thoughts there?

ALLY: Yeah, I mean I think that this is really different for every artist. For me it's, I don't feel like the business side of things, it puts a damper on my creativity. But I am also somebody who really enjoys like working with people and getting like task-based work done. Which making art is the opposite of that, at least in a way that I do it. It's kind of isolated. It's slow. It's, you're really in your own head as you're working on those things. And so the business side is so different. It involves a network of other people who have more knowledge about the things that I'm trying to do. It involves bringing in other stakeholders. And I mean I will say, in moments, maybe the creative side suffers a little bit. Or the business side suffers a little bit. Because I'll get really kind of sucked into one or the other. But for me, I kind of enjoy like blocking out time and dedicating certain spaces in my week to the things that I need to get done to be able to sell my work. But for some artists, that is not the case. Like some people really feel otherwise. And so they keep their day job, so that they don't have to address all of that and so that their work can really be sort of claimed as a hobby until it starts making a certain amount of money. Because for some people the whole business side of things can be sort of crushing to their creativity because they feel like they have to be producing enough to make a certain amount of money. And then that could really impact the decisions that you're making in your artwork, right? Like, for example, people love blue. I don't know what it is about it. Just every time I make a blue painting. Sells. Okay. So I could make blue paintings all day long, and just probably sell every single thing that I make. But I don't want to do that. So there's this like interesting tension between like the marketplace, and your conceptual framework for what you want to be doing. And that can be tough.

BIRD: Whoo, yes. And, oh, like you're just speaking my love language on so many different levels. I'm actually thinking about what you're talking about right now, even as it relates to any kind of entrepreneur in terms of marketing. I've had this like love-hate relationship with marketing over the last months. I had this really big launch of my program and kind of used a course that I took, that process as to how to market it. But it didn't feel as authentic as I wanted it to feel, and I really struggled with that. And I didn't have the bandwidth to like make it my own, in a way, which I'm hoping to do next time. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs out there kind of feel that way, period, right? Like, with me, this is what I'm doing in my businesses. This is how I'm helping entrepreneurs. But I have to get the message out there. How do I do that in a way that doesn't compromise my work, that allows me to be truly authentic, but still kind of fits the mold in a sense? Like I can't be wild and out and be inappropriate or unprofessional. But like who I am. I'm very transparent. I'm very open. I'm very direct. I’m trying to figure out kind of how to balance all that. So I think that that's important that you brought it up from the artist’s perspective and that also any entrepreneur can learn from that as well. And then I want to point out one other thing you said about blocking your schedule. I think that's huge. And a lot of the entrepreneurs I work with who are more creative. They seem to struggle with that because they want to be able to have the freedom to work when they work and they don't want it to be all of that. But I'm like well, I guess it depends on where you are in your business and on and on. But having that system or structure isn't limiting. It's actually freeing because you have these time containers so you can make sure that your time container for self-care, time container to work on the business, time container to, to do your art or to focus on your specific work, and on and on. So I love that you do that.

ALLY: Yeah, it's so important and it's definitely something that I took from my teacher life, and stole to bring into my artist life because when you are a teacher, you cannot waste 10 seconds. I mean if you are going to get out of there, soon after your students. You have to capitalize on any time that is yours and claim it and make something happen. And so that's something that I definitely am thankful for because I did, I so did not used to be that way. I mean, in college, whew, yeah. I did not get a lot done. But I think that, yeah, that just totally changed my perspective on protecting certain gaps of time. And what's nice about that is it. It protects like time to be productive, quote-unquote. Like doing the business side of things. And also protects my time to be what I sometimes feel is unproductive, which is just like thinking, and exploring and like leaving space for my studio time and to just play. Because this will become so stifling very quickly if I don't have that. And, yeah, so it's really important.

BIRD: Girl, that is a message. That is a message. That's a message to Bird. Like I needed to hear that. This idea of redefining productivity. I know you said that that's unproductive but it, it actually is productive for you.

ALLY: Yes, no totally big quote on productivity,

BIRD: And it can feel unproductive. And that's what I struggle with at times. Like Terry will say let's go take a walk. And I'm like, ugh. Like, I need that to refresh and to reframe and to think about other things. I need to not just be listening to business podcasts. 

ALLY: Totally.

BIRD: I need to be listening to literally like other stuff. And I think any entrepreneur should take a page from your book when it relates to that because that is huge. I love that you shared that. Now, what would you say, Are there any myths or misconceptions about being an artist in business? What that looks like. 

ALLY: Are there any? You're so kind. There are a lot. I mean I think number one, people just generally think that artists are disorganized and sort of irresponsible. Like we just get swept up in our creative world and we forget to pay our bills, eat food. That I mean, I will say I think there is a small group of people who maybe that is how they roll. But I think, generally speaking, artists are actually major self-starters, because we have to be. And so I think those sort of like tropes are a little, they like haunt artists a little bit. And we have to like work our way out of that stereotype, a bit when we're working with people who are not in the art world. I know oftentimes I'll get a response from someone saying like, “Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quickly”. And I can't help but kind of feel like that's a little bit of a jab to the artist types who maybe don't do that. But I think, yeah, like in reality there are lots of artists who are creating really strong work and also have the skills to communicate about it and promote it, and people just don't necessarily expect that. Yeah, so that's one myth, as far as like the artist goes. And then I think the other myth is sort of about the collector, or like the people who support an artist’s business. And the biggest myth I think is that you have to be really wealthy to have an art collection. And that's something that I'm trying to sort of breakthrough in the way that I present my work. Because that is not true. Art does not have to be this super luxury thing. Like I want everyone to have a little something in their space that they just like love and feel inspired by and get to look at every day. And so I think a lot of people are sort of turned off by art because it's been previously isolating to them. They feel like they're not a part of it or they don't understand it. And that is definitely, I mean, the art world can be an intimidating place and I understand where those feelings come from. But I'm really trying to make things more approachable and connect with people who maybe have never bought a work of art and are going to start their collection for the first time. So yeah, that's something that in my own business, I'm really trying to think about is like how can I connect with people, a consumer who maybe is new to collecting and feels like it's something that's not for them and help them do that for the first time.

BIRD: That's beautiful. Well, I can testify to say this. We are not wealthy. We're not wealthy yet. But I have two Alexandria Wallace art pieces, and one is custom-made. And it was so special and important to Terry and I when we moved into our house. Us moving into this house was a big deal. We were selling our old house. Anyway, we were really intentional about the art we had in our house, and the main piece we wanted was one of yours. And we would literally be looking at houses as we were house hunting and saying, “Ooh, our art piece could go here.” And I had already talked to you about what it would look like and we wanted it to represent mountains and oceans. Terry loves the mountains. I love oceans. And so, I mean, it could not be more perfect. It could not represent better what we wanted. And so, I mean, everyone talks about it when they come into our house. It’s beautiful. I try to make all my calls, my Zoom calls in front of it. It’s behind me so people can see because I'm so proud of it. So, I’m always shouting it out. So I say all that to say, it was a special moment for us. I mean, we're in no ways like super wealthy. But it was an investment we wanted to make because it meant so much. So if you're out there looking for a custom art piece. You are going to drool over Ally. So go to her Instagram. I'm gonna link it in the show notes and make sure that you show her some love and check out her work because it is incredible. So good. 

ALLY: Thank you. I had such a fun time, working with you all. You are such fun clients. And I have been hearing from lots of people that they've moved their pieces to go behind their Zoom calls. Like, okay, this works in our office now. I wanted to show you my setup. Really, that makes me so happy.

BIRD: You’re so incredibly talented. I love it. So what are some of the ways that you’ve grown your business? And I want to ask this question because there are creative entrepreneurs, artists, particularly out there who, maybe they have such a great skill and talent but they're just like, I don't know how to grow this thing. Like how do I make it into a real business? How do I take it maybe to the next level? So are there any practicals you could give there?

Yeah, I mean, the first one is probably so obvious, but I'm gonna share it anyways. Just like people are everything, and like lean on your people. I mean like you were just talking about. I met you at the gym. Then you found out what I did. You were excited about it. You supported me in it. You still share it. You bought it years ago. I mean that's just the best. And I'm so grateful for that. And I, especially in Texas, people do not mess around with their network. They are so good about, everyone has their people and they make sure they share that. And I just, I would not be where I am now without my network, supporting me, and being willing to share what I do. And it's okay to ask people to do that. I felt so awkward about that at the beginning. But then I've gotten a little bit more bold over the years of saying when I'm pushing out maybe a new series of work. I'll send like 15 close friends a message and say “Hey if you know anyone who you think has been looking for work, could you just send this along?” And sometimes just that personal endorsement can help so much because. Like I was saying earlier, buying art can be intimidating and so having someone say, I worked with this person and it went really well, is just everything. And that's, I think translates to any business. Just recommendations are so powerful. And then, I mean, again, kind of obvious, but, social media. I mean, when you're in a visual field, being able to share your process and be generous with the way that you share it is so important. I think when people are buying art specifically they really want to know how it's made and what it's about, and the story. And so I use my Instagram as, like, an archive to share those things and to share my sources, and what I'm interested in. So that when someone is excited about a piece, they kind of have already seen its arc, and where it came from and the phases that it went through. And it's incredible how many people are doing just that. They're like waiting for a piece that really speaks to them. So I would say be generous with what you share. Don't keep your process behind closed doors, if you're okay with sharing it. Obviously, some people, if it's some super intense secretive thing that you can't let out there. Fine. But I like to really share the behind the scenes and people are really excited about that.

BIRD: Ooh yes, that is so good. I actually did an episode recently on how to plan a photo shoot. And one of the main takeaways from the episode was that you don't want to just get pictures of your face or one type of thing. Like even if you're in the food business. On your socials, you don't want it to just be pictures of your food, right? I mean that's okay. But you also want to show some behind the scenes, some of your team. So thinking when you're planning a food photo shoot of what you need to grab and I kind of share a shot list and where people can get some ideas. So I love that you brought that up. And then on your first point, I love that you said that you'll reach out to 15 or so friends to share your work every now and then. I did an episode a while back on how to intentionally launch your business. And it was because so many of the entrepreneurs I would see what just kind of launch. Like just all of a sudden have a page and just share it and be kind of like eh. And I think we do that out of fear, right? Because if we really put our all into it and really have to share with our 15 friends and we fail, it'll feel like more of a failure. And, I mean, what is a failure, right? Because you can learn from it and make it better next time. So is it really a failure? But that's a whole other topic for another podcast. 

But in that episode on how to intentionally launch your business, I talked about how that's what I did with Bird Williams. I had like six different images that I sent to like 15 or so friends and I tried to make like a mini viral effect the day that I launched on social media. And you know, you have your website or website set up and all that. But there are ways to be intentional about it. Yes, you're putting yourself out there. But like you got to get used to that as an entrepreneur because you're going to be doing that again and again. So get used to being uncomfortable, right? Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. So I love that you shared that. 

ALLY: So true. 

BIRD: Now, what have you, kind of seen or what have been some of the biggest challenges as it relates to building a business as an artist? And how have you really worked through those challenges?

ALLY: Well I feel like I'm kind of living through one of the biggest challenges right now. I mean, selling, what is seemingly a non-essential product during a pandemic is difficult for sure. I don't know if you saw this. It kind of went viral in the artists world. But there was this survey from the Singapore Sunday Times that said, 71% of respondents in the survey said that artists was the number one non-essential job of all the jobs. Number two was telemarketer to give you some... 

BIRD: Wow! Wow. 

ALLY: Yeah, so seeing things like that come out during this time has obviously been discouraging, thinking about my business and the fact that I started this full time during the pandemic. I mean I graduated in May of 2020. And so I think I'm living through it. But I will say I think that if I can do it now, I can do it anytime. And I think the solution to that challenge or sort of like the way that I'm working through it goes back to something I was saying earlier, which is just making collecting art as accessible as possible. So I'm offering like more price points than I have in a while because I want to be able to offer that experience to someone for less money. And not to devalue my product. But just to have other things available. Like, not everyone can buy a 5’ x 5’ painting. Like that's... I can't. So I'm like, you know I'm looking to just make my business as inclusive as possible without, obviously, sacrificing my vision for my work, which I think is doable. So, that's been one challenge. 

And just trying to make things just to, like, diversify what I'm offering for people. And then also to diversify where my money is coming from. It doesn't always have to be art sales. I can do artist talks, teaching workshops. Like there are other ways as an artist that you can make your lines of, like, funding more diverse, and just to support yourself without feeling like, oh my goodness, if I don't sell 10 paintings this month, I'm not going to make it. To have like multiple avenues where your money is coming from. And that that doesn't mean that your artwork is failing. It just means that you're utilizing your full bandwidth of skills because you can also speak about your work and share your work in a public setting, things like that. So I've been trying to think about really making sure that each month I have a variety of opportunities for myself that are going to bring in money beyond just, “I sold a painting”. 

BIRD: Yes, that's beautiful. Diversification is so key. I was, I conducted a workshop recently and someone asked the question, how do you pandemic proof your business. It was a new entrepreneur. And she was basically afraid to start her business because she's like, you know, we're in a pandemic. What if this happens again, or something like it? And my response was basically that you can't pandemic proof your business. None of us knew this would happen. None of us know the next time it will happen. But there are some savvy things you can do as an entrepreneur, to kind of help in those moments and one was diversification. If you don't have your revenue streams just from one place, you have more ability to be agile. So I love that you brought that up and like you said, using the full bandwidth of skills that you have. You're not just one thing in your business. How can you look at it in different ways? So that is a really really great answer to that question. 

I also love how you said about, what did you say? You talked about having different price points. So, yeah, I like that because I actually shared today on social media, it was this funny reel that this young lady did. And then I was encouraging people not to like give stuff away for free. And it's because I see that happening a lot. Like I'll just give it away for free and on and on. But it's like you've worked so hard to get to where you are and it costs you a lot. So even if you're a service based entrepreneur, where someone could say, “Well you could just give that to me for free.” It's like, well no that cost me a lot to, to get that here. So, one thing you could think about is how to make smaller versions of what you offer at a more accessible price. So just like you're saying. Instead of the huge painting, maybe they're smaller paintings. Or thinking of what you can do with your services in that way. So like for photographers out there, instead of like the full suite, maybe it's like... I know one photographer I know was doing like these mini sessions, where he’d book out a video on one day for like six to eight hours and then have quick sessions throughout the day. And so it's not the full experience that he would typically offer. But people could get it at a discounted price. So there's ways to think about how to be strategic there as well. So great answers to that question. 

Now I know that there are so many artists or creatives out there trying to build a business. What advice would you give them if they were just starting out? Like newbie entrepreneur, newbie artist, or creative in the game. What do you wish that you would have known back then as it relates to building your business?

ALLY: Yeah, I love this question because I feel like it's so important. And again because there are so many sort of like societal ideas surrounding being an artist that you'll be starving, and you can't do it. I think a) that is not true. Like, if you make quality work, you are going to find people to support that work. And you have to just relentlessly believe in yourself and do it. But take it slow. Like I shared, I mean I kept my other income as long as I could until I really felt like I was ready to commit and go back to school and then to be doing this full time. And that was so important in the time that I was building it because it allowed me to make work at night, and to slowly sort of like fall in love with the idea of doing this full time. Versus cutting that income off too soon and like feeling crushed by the task of running this business without knowing if it was going to work. Like it was exciting to leave that job knowing I, that it was working, and that I had to leave. Like I, at that point, my art income was surpassing my educator income. And it was like, okay, like this is the moment. I can do this. And so, take it slow. Like I think that's okay. And, and also know when to make that leap. Just like you were saying in your email today. Like, it's so important to know when it's time to go. 

And then also something that I wish I had been doing was, and this is so specific really to artists. But make sure that you are protecting yourself through using a contract when you're selling your work. Because it is, oh it's so easy to just want to make that sale and to not stand up for yourself. And there are paintings that I, to be honest like they could be in somebody's garage right now and I don't even know. Like that makes me really sad that things that I made, I did not do a better job keeping track of. And somebody could sell it 10 years from now for much more money and I would get none of that because I did not sell it with a contract. And so I just recently attended this amazing seminar, through a resource called The Artist’s Office, which I highly recommend. She's on Instagram. Started by an artist here in LA. And she has basically, alongside a lawyer, she has rewritten a really great artist’s contract. And you can find it at artistscontract.com. And it basically protects you really long term with your work. So like I said, if someone resells it you would get a percentage of that. And you can decide what percentage you would like back. Or if you need the work back for a show, then you can say that you want to be able to use it. Just things that like, basically, for you and your collector it sort of is a declaration of like, I plan on doing really well with this, and that could benefit you and so I want it to also benefit me. So I'm going to use this contract. And I just so wish, I have been doing that already. So it's something I'm doing here on out. And I wish I could retroactively go back and have a little bit more ownership over all those things that I sold. 

BIRD: Ally that is so powerful, and I'm going to make sure that I tag The Artist’s Office and artistscontract.com in the show notes for anyone who could use that resource. That is amazing. and I know you started off saying that this was particular to artists. But, girl. I don’t know many entrepreneurs I work with, who don't use contracts and it just makes me so nervous. Because I mean they're just exposed, they’ve exposed themselves. Or even just blindly signing contracts. I know a creative entrepreneur, I know she's a yoga instructor. Long story short, she had this big brand submit a contract to her. And she just signed it thinking, “Oh, they're a big brand. They do this all the time.” Well, she only got paid for like one project but they use her images on so many different projects. It was on billboards. It was all over the place and she wasn't getting paid for any of that. But it was in the contract sheet that she just didn't read. And the thing is is that I think people don't realize everything is negotiable, right? 

ALLY: Yes.

BIRD: So I'm working with another young lady who does a lot of brand partnerships. And she's in a strategy session with me and she's saying that she feels like she's getting kind of done over with these big brands who are asking her to like promote their juices or whatever on her Instagram page. And she's just like, “I want to ask for this. But I don't know if I should or not, or if it's too much.” And I'm like, “Ask for it, like just see what happens.” And our next strategy session, she's like, “They said yes to everything.” They were working off what they told her the first time they worked together but had been so many times. Especially if you've worked multiple times with people. You should be asking for more money over time. So, that’s just such a great point for any entrepreneur out there. Like, I'm particular about the contract. So like if I work with an independent contractor, like a virtual assistant, for example. I like to use my contract, right? Because it's one that my attorneys drafted and on and on. So like I love that with this artistscontract.com, you can have a contract that you give. Right? That's going to be typically the case with your situation. But there are also times where you might be receiving. I'm not going to give Nike a contract to be like, but this is my contract. You’ll want to have an attorney review your contract and so I have so many thoughts around all of that. I love that you brought that up and it's such an important point.

ALLY: So important. Yeah, and if someone isn't willing to do that, like, that is a big red flag, and that's okay. And it will feel in the moment like it stings a bit because you're maybe missing out on that short-term paycheck. But long-term damage, that could be done is so much greater, that it is not worth it. So, yes, contracts all the way. I’m so excited to start using this one. 

BIRD: 1,000%. Girl, that is so helpful. Actually, this whole conversation has been, I think really powerful and really practical for entrepreneurs out there. So it just means the world to me that you were here and that you shared so much and were so transparent through our entire conversation, girl. You were just the best. I’m honestly so inspired by you and just everything about the person you are, the wife you are, the artist you are, the human you are. And so thank you for being on the show. 

ALLY: Okay, well, I'm blushing if you can't tell. Thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing and all of that. I just reflect right back to you. I'm so grateful that I met you through The League.

BIRD: Yes, and yes, and yes! I love that conversation. It was actually a lot of fun, and I feel like I say this a lot, but this has to be one of my favorite episodes. So much of it resonated with me. And as you could hear, it's applicable to all of us entrepreneurs, not just those in the creative space. So I really feel like I needed to hear this one myself. I know that you have to want to learn more about Ally and her incredible work. So head on over to alexandriawallace.com. Or @allyhwallace on Instagram. I'm gonna make sure that I tag. I'll link both of those links in the show notes so that you can just click and get right to following her, to purchasing her incredible art, and just supporting her work. 

And if you've listened to this episode and you're thinking, yeah Bird. I really need to get some things together in my business. I'm really inspired to make a change, to kind of build on the momentum I'm already feeling in my business, to really structure things and set myself up to succeed. I would love to strategize with you. It's super easy to book a strategy session on my website. And once you do, you're going to automatically receive a questionnaire, which is going to help both of us prepare for our call. Then, during the one-hour session, we're going to develop a strategy, a game plan of next steps to solve your biggest pain points. Whether that has to do with structuring your time or developing a marketing strategy or a financial plan or diving into a specific area that you want to focus in on your business or in your journey. Y'all, this is one of my favorite things that I get to do in my business. So I look forward to connecting with you soon. 

Thank you so much for tuning into Bird Means Business podcast. Make sure that you subscribe on Apple Podcasts. And leave a review. It would be so helpful if you left a review because that's how the show goes up in the rankings and more people will hear about Bird Means Business. You can also follow the show on Spotify, and make sure that you tell every entrepreneur you know about this episode so that they can be inspired by Ally too. Talk to y’all next week.